Episode 41

Craft Cannabis- Redefining what Quality Cannabis Means

In this episode, we talk with Will Bowden (Grasshopper Farms) and Justine Calvino (Emerald Road) about the challenges of outdoor growing of cannabis. In addition to the environmental challenges these expert growers have to overcome, they’re also both working to alter the misconceptions about outside grow operations by producing a high-quality “craft” product.


Will Bowden, Justin Calvino, Adam Kulbach


Adam Kulbach  00:15

Hello and welcome to the higher enlightenment podcast brought to you by higher yields cannabis consulting your seed to sale Business Solutions team. My name is Adam, part of the creative team here at higher yields. And today’s episode deals with craft cannabis. redefining what quality cannabis means, specifically outdoor cultivated cannabis. And today we have very special guests. Will Bowden owner, founder and CEO of Grasshopper farms located in Michigan, and Justin Calvino, founder of emerald road located in Mendocino California. So let’s get on with the show. So let’s start by having you guys introduce yourselves. Let’s start with Justin, can you give us a little background on yourself and tell us what you do?


Justin Calvino  01:06

Now my name is Justin Calvino, ama legacy cultivator from Northern California. I started off in the cannabis industry in California about 26 years ago, and, you know, really with a model of buying cannabis from, from you know, deadheads that were growing, after Jerry died, and, you know, and bringing it down to, you know, Santa Cruz and San Francisco and I tell you to Well, like I used to go, you know, used to go up into his neck of the woods and, you know, Boulder Creek and Ben Lomond and app toss and, you know, you know, down, you know, bring it down to like the Big Sur farmers market or I made most of my money on the corner Pacific in Cathcart as a you know, hippie quarter as a kid and used to go up and sleep in the kreski dorms with like, you know, friends from back east and, you know, just just just a really started, you know, facilitating, you know, the small batch to consumer model by, you know, selling drugs on the corner of the street. You know, but but that is, of course, evolved into, you know, then myself becoming a cultivator and really working on regenerative farming practices. Seeing always seeing the vision that, you know, there there was, there’s, you know, there’s economy behind community. And, and that, you know, one of those things, you know, involved is, you know, building out social infrastructure and, and in market infrastructure and so, in, you know, moved into the policy space for a little while, you know, you know, allowing for regulations, you know, for small batch cannabis farmers to enter into the marketplace, I’m involved in a couple of organizations that were influential in the state California Growers Association, and the CO cannabis policy council, designed the first cannabis appellations map and was influential in getting that passed at the, at the state level, in California. And then moved into then, you know, market development with the Emerald exchange and onsite event, you know, which was a farmers market. And we moved on to start in 2013, moved to LA in 2016. And now, you know, after post COVID, and everything moved online, decided to, you know, actually got the internet when the my kids were doing distance learning. So I had to actually, like, install a satellite internet on the farm and, you know, get the kids in front of computers. And I saw how they sort of, in the tech terms, the UI UX for most of the stuff that we were, they were doing on Zoom links, and so it wasn’t functional. And there was a real, there was a real ability to use the internet kind of like mycelium and information connection and, and we just needed to adapt and enter in blockchain technology. And they, you know, in the E commerce marketplace, and that’s where I find myself today. So the farms moved to Los Angeles. And, and now I’m, you know, now I’m a tech guy, which is a business, you know, it’s great. That’s what, that’s me. That’s me in a nutshell.


Adam Kulbach  04:33

Okay. Well, thank you. Thanks for being here. How about you? Well, could you give us a little background and tell us what you do?


Will Bowden  04:40

Yeah. Thanks, Adam. I appreciate it. So as Justin said, I was born and raised in Santa Cruz, California. So this industry was never foreign to me, and it was always something positive to me. In fact, the way that I experienced it and grew up around it. My life’s decisions took me a little bit of a different course. I ended up joining the military, and over the span of 20 years serving in the middle didn’t allow me to partake in the industry, either by using or working in industry. But I did appreciate it from afar. And about 10 years ago, I looked at it said, wow, it’s an amazing business opportunity for people as this industry starts to develop, and people start to understand the real true potential of it. So what happened then is I retired from the military. And it was that same exact month that I retired in 2018, that I actually met somebody who was starting a cannabis company. And when he learned what I had done in the military, and the things that I’ve done outside the military to, he thought that I might be a good fit for coming in and helping to operationalize this industry. So I went to work with another company and I started operationalized licenses in Michigan retail and indoor grow. And during that time, I fell in love with the outdoor grow the farm scenario, for a lot of the reasons that Justin was talking about as far as regenerative farming or sustainable farming, or just, it’s just plain old demand in general. So I went on to then leave that company, and I founded grasshopper farms located in paw paw, Michigan. And we started our single season outdoor grow for premium flower meant for retail. And that’s a little bit different, because a lot of folks who are doing outdoor farms really are setting them up more of a bio space where they’re going to be, they’re going to harvest plants straight for extraction. But we took a little bit of a different twist on this and said, We know that we can grow premium Sungrown flour for retail. And so we intend on doing that as our core competency. And then we’ll we’ll expand beyond that once we’ve nailed that core competency. And I’m happy to say after our year one commercial harvest, which was last year, we did a great job with that. Now we’re in year two. And the reason why out of my DC commercial harvest is because as we discussed this, the farm team has been operating in this space, meaning outdoor, the caregiver space in the state of Michigan for over 10 years growing legally growing premium growing things that will pass state tests outside, which is a lot of people think that that either can’t be done or is really hard. And we’re just very proud to be contributing to the market. And at grasshopper farms, we believe that education and working together are the top two priorities. And we can certainly get through that in our discussion here. But that’s what we stand for at grasshopper Farms is educating everybody on the potential of this industry. And for me, it’s deep and meaningful, because there’s a lot of folks who I know from the military men and women who have served either have combat injuries or PTSD. And this product has helped them to recover from that. And that’s just one example of a very small segment. There’s a ton of people out there that are benefiting from this, and we want to be a part of that.


Adam Kulbach  07:36

Well, thank you, and thank you for your service. Okay, the first question concerning outdoor cultivation, what is the perception versus the actuality?


Will Bowden  07:49

Just you might take some of that or you want me to go first?


Justin Calvino  07:51

Yeah, I mean, I mean, the perception of outdoor is usually, you know, it’s usually equated to cheap, right? So people think like, oh, outdoor flour, lower, lower grade flour. And, and, you know, it’s, it’s, to me, it’s the exact opposite, right, so you have this direct relationship with sun and soil, you have the coevolution of, you know, microbiology and the microbiome within the composting and the soil in networks, the end the climactic conditions, marine layer, altitude, lumen count from the sun, you know, so, you know, the marine layer and, you know, can can completely and totally, you know, block a certain amount of the lumen hours during some of the peak, you know, ripening months for certain strains, which means that the terpene development, actually is it starts coming out because it needs to protect against mold. So, now, if you were introduced like an OG or if you’re introduced, like a sour diesel onto the Mendocino coast, you know, you might get a little bit of a higher mold factor, but if you have something like the pineapples, or some of the, like, the great fruits have a little bit higher, the D limonene count as an antifungal, and you’ll have almost zero mold, you know, in in large, right, you know, rich, you know, terpene dense, you know, you know, nugs that are trike a trikon dense but, but But you know, very pungent aromas. And you know, so so, you know, because the marine layer and because those, you know, you know, so what we would call negative aspects in certain areas, actually are building positive aspects in the plant. And you can only have that with a, you know, with an outdoor environment, indoor environments, you can you can attempt to replicate it. And I’ve been I’ve been involved in these conversations where indoor farmers are like, well, I could do this and I’ve imported this and I’ve created this and we do These are anywhere from misting, you know to, to, to soil biology and importing certain types of microbes from from certain regions. And I’m like, wow, that seems extremely labor intensive, do what you can just do in that area. And then we just honor that area for what they do, and honor you for what you do in your area, you know, and don’t go through all the hassle trying to recreate someone else’s environment. So what I think like, getting back is that, you know, we’re shifting the perception of that lower grade, and starting to educate people on it’s actually higher grade medicine. And, and yes, the THC numbers are not through the roof. A lot of that has to do with trichrome density from from, you know, lights that are slammed up against plants, you know, that are creating, you know, extremely high, you know, concentrations of trikes and and then when you get into the test, it’s like, THC levels are through the roof. And it’s like, no shit. It’s like smoking, get up. Like, it’s like, either you’re smoking, almost like a concentrate in some ways. So, so we get to, you know, we get to view how we are comparing, you know, our metrics of comparison, when it comes to outdoor and, or Sungrown and indoor. I don’t know if that answers the question or if it’s just, if it’s just me going off. But But I think I think the, you know, I’m not a huge indoor fan. I like indoor nurseries. I do like some small batch indoors in the way people are doing things. But but it’s but I don’t like the large scale indoor farming. I don’t think it’s a solution answer for anything.


Will Bowden  11:47

Yeah, Adam, if I could just jump in here. I agree with everything Justin just said, I think that the explanation of why outdoor is cheap, is just simply a product of the industry going through a period of legality or being illegal, right. So you have people who are growing outside, this didn’t start inside, this started outside. And the reason why people went inside is because this became illegal. And so people wanted to stay out of jail, but still provide their product to people who wanted it. So they went into places where less likely to be found really is what it came down to. And so that didn’t just happen for decades, it happened for generations, right? And so over those generations, when this became legal, people said, Oh, well, I want to go stretch out again outside and get get more bang for my buck here. And they went outside and found exactly what everybody already knows in the farming community farming is really hard. And because this was a transition over generations, they couldn’t just grabbed the person who Alaska outside that person might already be past, right. So they had start learning how to farm and or working with farmers who already knew how to farm. And there’s two things about this, like, just because you are passionate about growing cannabis doesn’t mean that you can go anywhere and grow it, you still have to learn that environment like this is a this is a partnership between farming a plant and farming with Mother Nature. And you really have to understand that partnership, and you have to know it your specific area. Right? So I think what Justin’s talking about Mendocino, we’re going to have different layers of that conversation than if we’re talking about Michigan, rightfully so. But I mean, this is why coffee is only grown out of all of the United States has only grown in Hawaii, right? That’s where it’s conducive to be grown. And so when Justin started talking about the different strains that are more appropriate for outside, that’s where the conversation needs to go here. All of the disciplines of growing are going to be unnecessary, and all of them can produce high quality flower, that’d be indoor greenhouse and outdoor, they’re all going to be necessary because we haven’t even scratched the surface on complete demand. Yet, until federal decriminalization, and then legalization beyond that also takes place, we’re going to need all these disciplines. So that means that we’re going to need to have people who know how to grow a premium product outside that is meant for flour for retail, that’s really the distinction here that we’re talking about. When you’re growing for extraction, it really actually doesn’t matter as much if it’s inside versus outside. The last part of this, though, that I think I just I love is what Justin was talking about here. Plants are meant to thrive outside. And it’s not that we can’t grow a quality plant inside, there are tons of flowers that come from indoor and greenhouse nurseries very, very successfully, right. But in this case, we’re trying to grow a plant that actually produces a better profile, cannabinoid profile and terpene profile. And the place to do that is actually outside. Because plants have an inherent ability to actually bolster the levels of something to combat the thing that they’re encountering outside LA Times that sun, that’s when that’s pest that’s other kinds of disease out there. So like when Jess was talking about the limonene being there to help with mold, that is absolutely correct, but you’re not going to get that bolster of that if the plant itself isn’t fighting to protect itself. Now in the indoor places, they can try to simulate some of that stuff. I’m not sure that’s the right place for it. I mean, I think the growing a good quality plant outside and knowing which one of those strains really do well outside is part of the equation. I think knowing which ones are meant to be in a greenhouse and which ones are meant to be inside are also part of it. I think the last piece of this, so that’s on the quality part of this. The other thing to consider as more people get interested in farming, and learn the discipline of outdoor farming versus indoor growing, is just to look at a plant or resources perspective here. But in 2011, it was stated, one study said that indoor grow was occupying 1% of the power grid. That’s not sustainable. Right. And I think in in Massachusetts, specifically, they were either at five or 10% of their power grid there for indoor grows as well. And so knowing this, how do we then work together as an industry so that we can build this industry in a sustainable way where people can access the products that they desire in the form that they desire, in a way that’s complementary to our our industry, and then the ancillary industries, like the power industry, for example to so I think that just over time, the reason why it’s it’s has a notion that it’s lesser quality, it’s just simply because people are coming from indoor grows, and they’re trying to do the same amazing things outside. And they’re finding that they have to learn and embrace new techniques as they embrace outdoor farming versus indoor growing.


Adam Kulbach  16:18

Yeah, there’s yobbos, like me that had a couple of seeds and planted them in the backyard secretly, you know, so maybe that’s part of how the perception comes up.


Will Bowden  16:30

Yeah, maybe I don’t know. I mean, I think that that’s, that’s going to be an area where people get enthusiastic about growing this plant in the same way that a lot of folks have their own vegetable gardens at home. And of the people I know, at least who have like tomato plants in their backyards, and they grow these amazing tomatoes, they don’t grow enough that they can actually eat tomatoes all year round at the rate that they normally eat tomatoes, right. So that means there’s still a component that sends them to the store, right. And so I think that we’re gonna see the same thing in this industry, it’s fine for you to grow at home. But there’s also going to be this sense of, I have a life that requires other things other than growing and growing takes a lot of time and effort and attention. So that means that you might want to embrace some of the places when you want to go to the grocery store and get your tomatoes or you want to go to the dispensary or provisioning center, and get yourself some flour there, you should be able to do that. And it’s a quality one there. And then you’re learning from them at the same time on how you can grow your own quality home too. And what you’ll eventually find out is a person like yourself is going to say, Oh, I found the stream that a I love that better be that that’s it’s got to be one that you love first and then and then and then b i can actually grow in the area where I am, right. And so that actually might be you might have yourself a modified like one of those table greenhouses outside, or you might have a small indoor grow tent inside, there’s all these disciplines that are available to you. But it just takes time and effort to do it. And I always point back to we can all grow tomatoes, but very few of us actually do. So then it’s on the industry then to make sure that we’re growing high quality products in the form that people want it and making it available to them. And that can happen outdoor greenhouse and indoor very successfully, I think we’re going to see outdoor though, start to soar very high. As more people get more experienced outdoor and more people are comfortable saying I’m growing outdoors because remember, we’re in the middle of legalization right now. So it doesn’t mean that all the great growers out there aren’t out there doing it publicly. They’re just they’re still making that transition. And we have to give everybody that time to make that transition. You but


Justin Calvino  18:28

I also have to say to that, you know, it’s a scale thing. So what I got to see in in, you know, in my neck of the woods was that you know, as larger greenhouse grows started to pop up in Santa Barbara and the market started to become flooded. And these then these larger, you know, then you go north of Shasta into like Montague and those areas and then you know be like the the Hmong you know, we’re putting out like gi had huge field acre grows. And really just saturate in the Southern Oregon market started to just go tons and acres and acres that, you know, you started to see the price obviously drop and continuously drop. And it was impossible for a for a farming community that was used to growing 25 to 99 tops, right? So it’s 25 plants and 99 plants tops as an industry to then all of a sudden grow 10,000 square feet. Our facilities weren’t made for that. So we were building Quick Dry barns, we you know, so all of our so so the quality of outdoor, you know, or Sungrown has taken a dip and it’s only taken a dip be you know, it’s not all but a lot of because people are just over farming at a scale that is dropping dramatically the quality of life. The Sundram cannabis. So it so some of this also gets to be, what is the potential of Sundram? If correctly grown at scale, you know, versus what are people doing at the scale they’re currently operating at? And what are people settling for in the market? And how a sundre now becoming, you know, like, cheap weed, you know, because it’s it a lot of time, a lot of sense. It’s cheap, you know, it’s like, it’s, it’s a grown commodity. So we That’s why you know, platforms like we’re working on, you know, that, that takes small batch cultivators that are able to do a direct to consumer model and say, like, okay, great, go back to growing, you know, 2000 square feet of cannabis of canopy and, and, and process it traditionally the way you grew up processing it, and show people how your cannabis is far superior to any other cannabis grown anywhere else in the world. Right. And you know, and we get to boast and talk because, you know, obviously wineries do the same thing. You know, beer manufacturer, craft breweries do the same thing. It’s like, oh, we’re the best. And you know, but regardless that, you know, it’s a scale that just wanted to bring up the point of scale in this.


Will Bowden  21:17

Yeah, Justin’s totally right there. It’s the scalability here is really important. And I take that what Justin was talking about, as, really, there’s a somewhat of an identity crisis going on with some folks, they became really good at a craft level something. And then they thought, because I’m good at that craft level, I’m just going to go, and I’m going to buy as many acres as I can. And I’m going to plant all of that, because now I just want to take my small scale thing, and I want to make it big Well, there’s a lot that you have to do when you scale, right. And so like our farm, we have 160 acres, but we’ve only built out 40 acres. And we did that very intentionally. Because we said we want to stay at a craft level, we want to do something really, really well. And that means that we need to be in a space that we have a high degree of control with our existing employee count, right. And so that and that was still a transition for the farm team that we have, that was a transition for them, because they were working off of a bunch of smaller growers throughout Michigan. And now they’re in one single location where we’re at around 5000 plants. Taking out taking care of 5000 plants is a lot of work, right? So it’s in processing, that it’s one thing to start the plants and then just take care of them, let them grow, it’s a whole nother thing to harvest all those plants now, too, right. And a lot of people in the industry will say that your your, the quality of your product is going to be made or broken. Right at harvest time. That’s that’s either what you’re going to do right or wrong. And that’s all the way through, it’s bagged and ready for retail, right. And so I think that scalability is something that people have to pay very close attention to. And it’s like, what is your core competency, and once your identity. So in our case, we’re a single season outdoor grow, we know we want to stay well below 2% of demand in the state of Michigan, we want to make sure that we have a footprint that we can manage very successfully with our existing team that in the retail Sungrown space. And we’re doing that we’re doing it well. So like we passing tests, we’ve got great quality as well. But the other thing to sprinkle on to this too is that you got some folks who are transitioning to say, I’m just going to grow as many plants as I can with the highest THC possible. And that is also a very short term plan. It’s something that people are focused on here, right now. But they’re going to start learning more about this amazing plant and all the polies has to offer. And they’re going to realize that THC is actually one of the smallest things in that plant that they should be paying attention to, for the effects that they desire. And we’ll get into that as we go forward here too. But I think really knowing what your identity is, and what’s your core competency. So are you a course you’re trying to make a lot of beer? Or are you a craft beer? Like, you know, I don’t know, one of the craft beers that are out there?


Justin Calvino  23:58

Well, I have to I have to say one thing, just real quick. You’re running the show, but Bill and I could just talk for hours. It’s good. But but you know, so so there’s this so in the D stigmatization of cannabis right in the market. One of the things within the industry, and that’s generally comes from regulators and it comes from and it also comes from like, you know, larger brands entering in the space and well I’m not lumping you into this, I’m, I’m, I’m just wanting to like bring up this this sort of idea that’s been fed to us and that you the perspective My perspective is a little bit different because it just it you know, I was involved in this moment where I was growing 25 plants then I was growing 49 plants did that I was growing 99 plants, then in 2000 Well, that started doing, you know, 2011 2012 I started just saying fucking, I’m just going to start doing excuse me mentally, which I was, you know, I’m just gonna start doing, like a lot of depths, right, because that, you know, and, you know, it’s, you know, started really doing debt farming and building, you know, greenhouses to do depths. And, or light deprivation, if anybody doesn’t know what the term depths mean. You know, so meaning that we could get three harvests a year, and so started doing these things. When legalization and more and more farms came online, we started to gradually see ourselves scaling to that point where it was, like, when I was growing 25 plants, you know, I was growing, you know, outdoor with the Crimson canyons, the, you know, it just looked like the world’s best indoor. And then by the time I was growing, you know, 10,000 plus square feet, you know, on my farm, you know, I was just like throwing it into a room, letting people just 3d snip and throw it in a bag and see how much we could get processed in a day. When we did that, we didn’t do it because we wanted to make more money. It was a survival. Like, it wasn’t like, Hey, we’re gonna throw up more greenhouses, because we want to make more money at what we’re doing. As more people entered into the market, our margins started to drop, obviously, you know, supply demand, right. So it’s like, so we were scaling to, to meet the needs of the market and to meet the needs of our farm. And, and so, so a lot of guys weren’t going craft to commodity because they were like, oh shit, like, I’m going to blow this thing up and become the super rich, you know, farmer, we were fine growing 25 plants and getting a few $1,000 pound, you know, for getting 100 pounds, selling for $2,000 a pound that’s 200 grand. We’re living off grid, our kids, you know, get, you know, they go to public high school and public schools, and they end up going to UC schools, and they’re fine. And we drive Subarus and tundras, you know, probably six to 10 years old, you know, sometimes 20, in the case of whoever, you know, whoever just likes their truck that much, you know, but, you know, our wives drive, you know, our backs, and you know, and that’s, you know, we’re, you know, like, That’s it, and we were fine. We were never wanting to become the next good Oh, cannabis IPO. You know, like, that wasn’t the that wasn’t, that wasn’t our intention. So. So I think that’s, that’s what I’m talking about D stigmatization of the rise of the craft farmer into the scale where they currently find themselves now, it was, it was born of necessity, not of want, like, we didn’t want to go that big. Nobody, we really enjoyed our extra time not caring for 5000 plants, you know, we liked going out and hand touching everything, you know, to be it’s as painful for us to disconnect from our crop, and still grow it as it is for us to get to see the drop in the margins and the prices. So anyway, I just want to I just want to put that in there that it wasn’t, it wasn’t necessarily that we’re like, Yo, we’re gonna kill it now that it’s legal. It was like, Oh, shit, this is how we’re gonna survive.


Will Bowden  28:23

Yeah, I, it sounds like Justin and I are keep tagging on to each other. And I’m so sorry about that. But you know, it’s great. Again, the transition in Michigan, if we were to define it, is the transition from the caregiver space to the commercial space. And the caregiver growers are the ones that Justin was just talking about. Very passionate, high degree of precision, super high quality, whether they were going it outside in the pen, or inside in a pole barn. Just really high quality, the people were really good at what they were doing. What happened, at least in Michigan, and I think it’s it’s similar in many states is that as legalization took hold, and then commercialization that started to develop within the market, anytime I say market, I mean that state, it then said, Hey, if you want to keep doing what you’re doing, you’ve got to go and do it in this new space. And this is where I think some of the identity crisis started happening. A lot of states do have something called a micro business or something like a micro business license where you can continue doing it at a very small scale. Right. And I think that the confusion for some folks came in when they were approached by other people to say, hey, you can make a whole lot more money if you come and do this. And there was scaling that I don’t think people were ready for or even wanted for that matter, because it was out of necessity of their other market was starting to at least look like it was drying up. And so people had to start making that transition. And I’m not sure that they were prepared for some of the business decisions that they were going to have to make, as they considered the business viability of the smaller scale grow that they were so passionate about, and how that fits into the commercialized market. And, well, I think we’re gonna see this continue to, to unravel, and people will find their footing. But I think it’s created a space where there’s a lot of identity confusion in here. And some of it is like people are being you know, wooed by bigger people who have deeper pockets, and that’s fun. Or that just, they just want to try to tackle the scale if they can. But all the while, quality suffers when those things happen. And we’re not either trained or prepared to do that thing. And so, you know, people are struggling right now to make that jump from, like I said, the Mr. Market, caregiver market to commercial market, whatever that gray space is for that market, whatever they called it, as they go into the white market of commercialized market, too. And so I think this is exactly where we see some of the things that Justin was just bringing up. And it’s, there’s, there’s no shame in going back to a like a smaller scale license, if you will do that micro business and just do it well, because you will, you will do well, you’ll make a name for yourself. But then the last thing is, is that I think that as other commercial markets have demonstrated, this one’s going to be no different in the sense that you’re going to have to build your brand. And that means you have to develop your relationships, you have to get your who you are out there, what you stand for out there, how you operate out there, how you treat your employees out there, all the things that we can see in like Fairtrade, coffee, or vineyards, organic vineyards, or all these other places that we are paying attention to that stuff now, it’s going to apply to this industry as well. And we just have to be very careful, I think. And in that identity of who we are, who we are today, who we want to be tomorrow, and then how do we transition that and it might be the same thing. I’m going to be tomorrow at same thing I meant today. What are the new tools I need? As I go from one market, the gray market into now the commercial market? Because the tools will change at that point?


Justin Calvino  32:00

Yeah, I agree. I’m not gonna dovetail into that. Adam your


Adam Kulbach  32:05

job easier. So how do you see the cannabis industry evolving? And where is it going?


Will Bowden  32:15

So I’ll just I’ll just start this one, then just can take it. But I see this as being a large scale change management exercise over something that should have been legal all the time. That’s, that’s just that, right. And so we have been told for so long that this wasn’t okay. That right now we’re in the process of people considering Oh, it actually might be okay. And it’s this change is very hard for human beings in general, it would be the same thing if the entire science community came out and said, Hey, that color you’ve been pointing up and calling blue, we got it wrong, guys. Sorry, that’s actually red. And even if we all agreed on that being red, it would still take a dramatic effort for all of us to start calling that color red, and now referring to whatever the other color is that we need to start calling blue. Now, this is a controversial space. This is a space where we basically have three generations of people who were hammered with this is not okay. And all kinds of marketing and efforts to say this is not okay, right. And then, oops, all of a sudden, we decide, oh, actually, it might not be as bad as we thought it is. And we’re seeing a lot of additional value here. PS people are using it responsibly. recreationally to PFS, it’s, it’s less dangerous than some of the other recreational products out there are. So there’s just all this new information coming out. And so now people are having to vote on this. They’re having to regulate it legislated. And so I see this as a big change management exercise. As I’ve gotten into this industry, I found out that the use of this industry is way more widespread than I ever could have imagined it just people weren’t comfortable talking about it. And now they’re getting comfortable talking about it. And that’s why I call it a big change management exercise because it’s starting to now become legal. And then as it becomes legal, then it’s going to start to evolve into a normalized commercial space in which we recognize industry tools and practices that are well served. And sometimes maybe the, you know, like the the wine industry, or the grape industry specifically, or blueberry industry or tomato industry. There’s a lot of farming practices that are very similar to our industry here. So I see it evolving in that change management space. And then as people get more comfortable with it, they’ll start to pull from some of the other successful techniques of other like industries to make this one of another very normalized, very beneficial in a great industry. And then on the tail end of it, I think we’re going to start seeing people have healthier relationships with a lot of different things out there. Whether it be their own health, or the amount of sleep they get, or with other products that we’re using for reasons that they were trying to get to whether it be pain management or something like that. It’s going to help them have better relationships in those spaces, whether it be with this product or with the product that we’re using and just using less of it.


Justin Calvino  34:58

Yeah, and You know, I see, you know, I see a two part to that as well, like I see on the commodity side of thing. Exactly what we’ll was talking about, I see, you know, shifting to more mechanisms and, you know, mechanized growing systems or commodities, you know, like, you know, infrastructure, cleaner business management, I reached out to people all the time, I’m, like, you know, running away from responsibility and farming in the hills in Northern California for, you know, for decades doesn’t necessarily serve as the best, you know, business development model or, you know, so like, you know, interacting with, you know, corporate execs. And in the financial structure, you know, it’s difficult for small farmers. And so, we are going to see sort of like the quote, unquote, normalization. But, but also, you know, cannabis prohibition has served us in a lot of ways where we’ve actually built a culture around being different. And so, you know, a lot of the major players, you know, the legacy players in the space, you know, regenerative farming is just a no brainer for us, like, it’s like, it’s how we, it’s how we grew up doing it, we grew up building our soil, we grew up farming in the ground we grew up doing like, these are, these are the things that we know how to do, and that are normalized in our lives, that’s going to start to find its way in to sort of the quote, unquote, you know, like, I don’t like I don’t like using the word traditional, because I think traditional is actually the way we farm, and I think the, the industrial, you know, so we’re gonna start to see the traditional, the original way of farming, kind of go back into coming into the industrial way of farming, and we’re going to influence communities to start growing more responsibly in all sectors of agricultural agriculture. We’re going to work, you know, in because of the, this is, this is what I believe is beautiful, because of the decentralization of regulations in interstate, right, we’re going to see policies, you know, in, in, you know, built around, you know, each and every single municipality or state regulation, that is going to build decentralized industry by nature. So you’re gonna see all of these micro brands before federal prohibition, that that are going to be coming up because they are going to be the pillars or the staples of their communities. Be at at the state of Colorado, Michigan, you know, Oregon, California, because there is no interstate commerce. So, so there isn’t going to be like, necessarily the Budweiser of coming out today, right? Like, there’s going to be at least a decade of time for for, for these smaller brands to actually prop themselves up and prop the state infrastructure. So that’s something that you know, that the sort of DISA centralization model is also going to influence commerce, you know, it’s going to also show that there is viability, there’s market viability to a craft industry, you know, so, you know, so So where we borrow a lot from, you know, wine, appellation, and from, from the craft brewing movement, we also have our own brand of culture that we’ve been building over decades, that also influencing it as well. So I’m going to, so we’re going to see, naturally an evolved, you know, world that was sort of systemically influenced by this plant spirit medicine by cannabis itself. And in in sort of like this, like esoteric, you know, divinity around, you know, the march towards human evolution, you know, and where we’re going as a society to survive. I think this time this medicine is coming in, to influence the economy in a way in which it’s influenced its users. So you’re certainly seeing these, like, two parts. So I saw I see, you know, you know, from from that level, I see that, you know, we have a great place for the craft movement, and a great sort of like pedestal or, you know, or pulpit to kind of like, preach the gospel of of regenerative farming, and, you know, decentralized economy. That’s that.


Will Bowden  39:28

Beautifully said, Justin.


Adam Kulbach  39:30

Yeah, I was gonna sort of touched on it, but I, I want to ask how much of a threat is the large corporations, you know, like big tobacco and big beer to you guys?


Justin Calvino  39:41

I’m actually not worried. I don’t know many Budweiser drinkers, you know. So it’s like, most of the people that you know, that are coming over to, to, to to my home or to a barbecue are gonna bring bring a six pack of you know, a, you know, you know, variable five or you Are they’re gonna bring, you know, they’re gonna bring some, you know, you know, a Lagunitas they’re gonna bring something, you know, they’re gonna bring something, you know, a California brew and Anderson Valley, you know, you know Brewing Company in a beer, or they’re gonna bring a nice bottle of wine that’s that, you know that from from, you know, you know, a 30 $40 bottle of Chardonnay Chardonnay Are you know, are cab so I don’t see necessarily that that we’re under any threat, it’s really hard to we want to work, right, it’s a lot of work that we have to do as small batch, like, if we if we want to ride on the coattails of the bigger guys to get in, then obviously they’re going to have a larger marketplace. But as we work to develop more platforms and more communities, and you know, more organizations around, you know, the sort of the proliferation of craft, that that’s why there isn’t there’s no threat for us. Yeah, I


Will Bowden  40:56

agree with Justin there anybody thinks that the big grower is a threat, probably they don’t understand the market to the degree that they could. Okay. And I And I’m talking about now, even at the state level, but certainly at the federal level to when federal rules do eventually change. And, you know, I, I think it’s not a stretch, like I love the examples that Justin just gave, it’s not a stretch for us to think that, you know, corps exists out there very successfully right now. But, you know, there’s this place called Firestone brewery down at San Luis Obispo, that has national distribution, and they are an amazing, amazing brand, with the different lines that they carry. Well guess what they fought for that they worked hard for that. So that back to this work ethic that Justin’s talking about, it’s very evident that we’re gonna have to do that work, the neat thing is, we get to do the work before the big boys come in. Okay. And that’s our opportunity right now to solidify ourselves for brand awareness, the quality of our product consistency of our, our product, as well to be able to demonstrate that right now. And it’s almost like food. So if I were to step away from beer and wine for a second, just go to food, you know, food started with local communities, they, they grew their, their fruits and vegetables, they made their cheeses and they got their milk, and they provided their meats, all from like a local radius. And it was all based off of the ability to keep that food fresh enough to actually deliver it to your customer base, which was essentially your neighbors, right. And it then we go through the industrial age has a lot of automation that comes in, and people are just simply able to grow at scale faster, they’re able to kind of fulfill that convenience that people want. So they can now go to a grocery store, get everything they want. And so, you know, industrialization came in, but not as a brand like we’re gonna see in this, it was just more of a convenience for people. But what’s coming back right now, people are buying from local farms that either they send boxes to their houses, or they can go to a market that now says, this cheese was made at this place, this dairy farm cheese farm that’s in your local area here. And you even see the large scale grocery chains that are starting to advertise. This came from somebody locally, here’s who they are. So I think that we we see the demand out there of people who want to work with their their local vendors, if you will, or even if it’s not local, their craft vendors that they have an affinity to. I mean, I was just starting an event this last Friday, where we probably had 30 Different people show up. And everybody was supposed to bring a six pack or something. And just like Justin said, not one of those was one of the mass produced beers, they were all craft style craft level beers. I think that’s a beautiful thing. So I think that there’s plenty of room in the future market and even the current state markets right now for everybody to coexist, but it goes back to who are you. And if you’re a craft, trying to be a course Forget it, you’re not going to make it. Or if you’re a course trying to pretend like you’re a craft, forget it, you’re not going to make it, you’re not gonna be able to fool consumers. But there is space for both of those types of organizations to exist. Because at the end of the day, some of the folks are going to go to a grocery store, and they’re going to buy exclusively out of the organic section, and some of them are not going to buy in the organic section. They’re both awesome consumers, we need to be able to make products for both of them. And that certainly will apply to our industry as we go forward to agree.


Adam Kulbach  44:13

Okay, what are terpenes? And how do they impact quality?


Justin Calvino  44:21

So terpenes are a natural expression expressing compound in the plant that sort of words against you know, mold, it’s a smell, it’s a it’s a flood, it’s, it’s the smell of the of the you know, so it’s like if you’re if you if you if you break up with the Trichome the terpenes is like what you actually smell and terpenes unlock the medicines ability to actually have a medicinal effect, as well. So it allows for your body so like, let’s just say you I think of a lemon, right? Think of biting into a lemon. And you’re, you’re, you start to salivate, right, which means that you’re starting your digestive process to get to break down the food, you know, before it gets into the, to the acid of your stomach terpenes do the same thing from the from, from the smell. So not only the antifungal anti mold, or antimicrobial, they also, you know, you know, so like, that’s like Pine Sol, you know, like the terpene of Pine Sol, when you’re putting it on, you know, like, for preservation, you know, in, in cleaning, or like, you know, the live, it needs to use a lot I like citrus cleaning products. You know, it also it also, you know, sort of starts to break down and, and allow for the cell walls to open to uptake the cannabinoids to actually be a beneficial use of medicine. So the idea that, you know, that’s the way in which, you know, we talked about like a full profile medicine being the higher the terpene profile, you know, the higher the flavonoid profile allows for the cannabinoids to actually be effective. The that’s, that’s the, you know, sort of, like, you know, my non scientific description of a terpene.


Will Bowden  46:27

Yeah, and I think you have to tag into that it’s the terpenes are the things that you’re smelling from that particular strain, that also provide for some effects when we think about what some called the entourage effect, or the synergistic effect of the terpene profile and the cannabinoid profiles working together. And that’s why it’s gonna be so important for us to understand what terpenes are in the eye, like I just was talking about anti this and anti that this is why the outdoor plants are going to have a more robust terpene profile. Because the plants, it’s not just the lineage of the plant, it’s the plant fighting to survive outside, and it’s going to produce higher levels of these terpenes that are actually going to be very beneficial to you. terpenes are naturally occurring in so many different places, and I like the lemon. And just when you were describing that my mouth actually started watering to just in response to that, because I love lemons, but you know, it’s there, it’s we’re already very familiar with these. So like, if you’ve ever walked into a place where somebody’s using an atomizer, and they’ve put in some drops of essential oils in there that are letting off a smell that you consider to be pleasing, that’s terpenes at work there. Now, the only difference here is whether they’re naturally occurring coming out of plants, or whether they’re synthetic, and they were made in a lab. So we’re just going to focus on the naturally occurring ones that are in our plants, right? And but you’re going to find them in other plants too, like the lemon that Justin was talking about. So they are actually ever they all have properties. And these properties have great medicinal value for us. And it’s going to be important for people to understand what is limonene? And hey, does it you know, give me more focus? Or does it give me more relaxation? Or is it anti inflammatory in nature, these are the things that we really need people to start paying attention to. Whereas right now, a lot of people are focused on THC, but it’s so much more than the THC, right, there’s other cannabinoids in there, too. And then the terpenes as well. And when we start looking at all of those together, PS, I want to smell it, is it pleasing to Me, and My tastes are not, because you’re gonna have some folks like, if we go back to the beer world who want that super hoppy IPA, and you got some people are like, I don’t want anything to do with that super hoppy IPA, I want to be back on the other side of like something easy going, like, you know, I have a visor or something like that, if we just go with a beer reference here for a second. So people are going to find their own affinities to where they’ll take it. Another level here is to figure out, Oh, hey, I just had a really good experience with that strain did I just tried. So maybe afterwards, currently, they’ll look at well, what’s in that, and in the future, they might buy it based off of what’s in it before they’ve even tried it. That way that they’ll anticipate an experience versus discover and experience and then look back to see what was in it, it there’s gonna be a lot of education, I think that’s going to go on here. But terpenes are definitely a big, big part of this, and what is people smell a little bit of what they taste and definitely the effects that they feel.


Justin Calvino  49:14

And just real quick, you know, you brought up to such an amazing point, and that I love to make, which is that, you know, cannabis grown in an indoor environment, you know, although the breeding and in the genetics of the cultivar can can express a certain level of terpene that when we say like when we see all these pictures of people in like lab coats and like, you know, sterilization and homogenization, and like all of the things that, you know, you put on industrial agriculture, like it’s 100% Correct. It’s like, the development of the terpenes isn’t necessarily a function of the plant for survival. So it’s like, so, you know, one thing that I used to do that Back in the day was I would take a steak, like a nail, like a large, you know, like a steak like a railroad kind of steak. And I would take it and I would drive the steak through the base of the plant, right before, like about three weeks before harvest, you know, just nail it right and, and that plant for the survival of the plant would start just expressing itself with every single like Gooey, gooey trichrome Crystal resin that could enter that plant, it almost looked like it was dying it was struggling to live with he was struggling for water. But those buds were world class are you doing that at scale is nearly impossible. You’re like, like it like because then you’re running around chasing certain places, some of the buds actually do start to degrade and start to mold out. But the ones that don’t recreate the highest terpene, the highest flavonoids, the highest cannabinoid levels, and because they’re fighting to survive, right, so it’s like, so there’s this, you know, like, we’re gonna go forth and Pearl, you know, and spread the species, you know, like, and so they’re just like crystallizing, anyway, regardless, indoor homogenized and sterilized environments do not create the highest terpene values that just, you know, just interest. That’s it,


Will Bowden  51:26

there’s a saying that the best wine is produced from grapes that were extremely stressed.


Justin Calvino  51:31

Yeah, this high stress situations, you know, pushes out everything that we want in the plant, the sugars, the the terpenes flooded with, like all of it. So it, you know, but like I said, that is a technique that, you know, you walk through and see somebody like hatching like a triangle out of the base of their plants, you know, to 5000 scale, and then having a really, like, micro analyze every plant after that, to make sure that, you know, systemic mold isn’t getting through and like actually creating detritus, you know, and doing all this stuff. So hey, yeah.


Adam Kulbach  52:08

Okay, so how can we best educate consumers on redefining quality? And what makes a quality product? As far as cannabis?


Justin Calvino  52:19

I mean, what, what messaging or what,


Adam Kulbach  52:23

what, how do you get the message out?


Justin Calvino  52:25

Yeah, I mean, you know, we can talk about this, I’m very vocal in that in this in this space, you want to, you want to take it first.


Will Bowden  52:36

So I’ll probably go a little shorter here. And Justin will definitely do it much more service than I can’t. But I think the first word that comes to mind is patients, we, we have to educate and be patient. And I don’t like comparing us to beer, wine and liquor. But there is a, I think, a story within the beer world, specifically the craft beer world that might teach us a little bit here. And that is, is that when craft beer really started taking a hold, and people started seeking it out. One of the first things they started looking for was the ABV value, the alcohol percentage, right? And there were times when a phase that we went through where if you went into a bar, and you saw a beer with like a 14% ABV, who were like, I’ll try it. And you didn’t know the name, you didn’t know what kind of beer it was, you didn’t know how it was made, who made it, you know what other other like types of individualized, specific ingredients they put into it. It was all about the ABV at that stage in the game. And then what people started doing is they started finding Well, I like this kind of a beer. So I’m going to seek out craft beers that that are brewers that make this kind of a beer. And then it even went deeper to say, Oh, these guys are actually integrating these kinds of things into their beer and you’re started hearing different things like people are mixing in coffee into their beer. This one has a higher level of like a great food taste and smell into it. And suddenly the conversation had nothing to do with ABV. And if anything, that was like the last thing they might have mentioned it like oh, yeah, and it was also a 9%. So be careful, you know, that kind of thing. But it was all about ABV. And I feel like right now. We’re in a stage where there’s a lot of curiosity in this industry, rightfully so. And there’s a lot of focus on THC. In my experience has been that sometimes folks will go in and they’ll be looking for a specific name, like a stream. They might look at the what’s the look like as far as the bug goes, and what does it smell like those three things, and then make a lot of decisions based off of that. They’ll also look at THC, of course. And my experience has been, the higher the THC number goes, the less they care about the other three things name, smell, and taste are and look. And so that’s I just think that we just we are where we are with an industry that is breaking out of a place where it wasn’t a lot at one time. Now, if we in the industry work together, and we educate people on things like cannabinoid profiles terpene profiles else, we’ll start to see that people are focusing less on THC, less on the look of the flower, and more about what is actually in that now, don’t get me wrong, there’s people who are good out there who can smell and look at it and they’ll know what they’re they’re looking at. They don’t know what they’re dealing with. I think that’s a lower percentage of people than we realize, though I think most of the people are influenced right now by a name and THC level. And we see that in the wine industry all day long, where people are buying bottles of wine based off of the label that’s not going to change. But as we continue in this industry, and as we continue to educate people on what’s different between THC and CBD, did you guys all know those are both cannabinoids, it’s just THC happens to be a more commonly known one until lately now CBD is just as commonly known. Hey, what about CBG? What about CBN? What about CBC, there’s a lot of other contaminants out there. And then there’s this whole list of terpenes out there too. And then there’s all these effects that go along with them. And so I really like it, when I walk into a dispenser provisioning center, I keep using those two words or names synonymously, because state legislation assigns those names there. So that’s why I’m using those interchangeably. But I think I really liked the provisioning centers and dispensaries that I go into where they have actual patient counseling stations set up. And I’m not just talking about a budtender talking about strains, I’m talking about somebody who has somewhat of a medical cannabis background, they sit down with somebody and say, Hey, what are you trying to accomplish. And that exchange of information right there is amazing, because then it yields recommendations, based off of the experience that they’re trying to accomplish, whether that be medicinally or recreationally. And it allows for that exchange of education. And now a person’s coming in not looking for the highest THC, what they’re now looking for is I’m looking for this profile. And then once they find it, they go back for that profile, because that’s the one that got them the effects that they wanted, like, I need better quality sleep, I need longer sleep, or I have this medical condition where I have a seriously suppressed appetite. And I need to increase my appetite. And when they find those strains that work for them. And they understand which cannabinoids and terpenes helped to accomplish that it will make them more educated in a talking to their friends about it and be when they go make purchases outside of that single stream they’re talking about. So I think the education is just something we’re going to have to continue to commit to, and then be patient, knowing that we’ve got north of 300 million people in the United States that we educated and it’s gonna just take time to do it. PS, there’s a whole world that’s trying to do the same thing right now to


Justin Calvino  57:30

Yeah, and, you know, all of those things being very true. I mean, you know, you can’t even get cannabis into a dispensary if it doesn’t test over 20% You know, unless you advertise it as like a, you know, as like a, almost like a CBD rich flower, you know, but, but anything, anything testing under 20% Generally, you know, gets pushed off before it even gets, you know, consumed by a, by a buyer, and a dispensary or a delivery service. So, you know, there is there is a lot of work to shift. We started a few years ago, an organization called the go GA, which is a cannabis Somali a program. And, you know, we work to educate people through, you know, through a protocol that we developed, that allows for people to assess the quality of cannabis outside of the THC value, you know, judging cups are getting really big. So, you know, so like, you winning a judging cup, and seeing the diverse profile and what’s actually, you know, you know, honored by the experts, those are going to be big things. So, so getting, you know, getting your communities to build these smaller until larger judging cups, and getting that data aggregating it and making it available. But what, you know, what I speak mostly about is because, you know, working on, you know, sort of this market development now for for, you know, for the last, you know, 10 years straight, is that, you know, we have a we have a responsibility to tell our story. And this is what I was talking about earlier, when I said it’s gonna take a lot of work for us. It’s not just that we get to work on the policy side of things. It’s like, what are we working to do to tell our story, we are the underdogs. When it comes to marketing budgets, I know this firsthand, that you can say all of the beautiful words that you want, you can create all of the beautiful videos that you can, you can put all the pretty labels on your packaging. But the consumer mind is so hard to transition and shift. It is you know, we’re we’re dealing with you know, 80 plus years of, you know, 90 years of prohibition, and where you know, the world has been told that this plant is evil. And that you know, that this is the you know, the you know, and then Now the only way in, really has been through Sanjay Gupta in the CNN, you know, and, and, you know, in like the, you know, in what the media will allow us to see. So Instagram takes us down, Facebook takes us down, you know, LinkedIn takes us down now you’ll see small little peppering of cannabis stuff throughout. But at any moment in time any of these can these these, you know, larger scale, you know, marketing platforms, you know, will take us down because it because it’s a federally illegal substance. So it takes the building out of, of community in your area, we developed a platform that allows for the cannabis community to market on that platform and also directly distribute to consumers on the platform. So you know, it’s, it’s, you know, so we’re the Emerald road.io, and it’s specifically around building community, you know, you know, building craft community, and building the sort of decentralized marketplace, but it’s, it’s constant storytelling, it was constant, you know, it’s constant messaging, it’s, you know, people aren’t going to know the difference unless you tell them, and they’re not going to listen until you find a way in. And it’s constant, it’s consistent, it’s, it’s the biggest work we have to do. You know, Nike spends 75% of its bulk of his profits on marketing, you know, the with larger scale, you know, you know, industry humans do in corporations, do they spend their money on marketing and telling the story. So, we need to, not only do we need to create the differentiation in the marketplace, between legacy craft culture, and commodity industrial farming, we also need to develop platforms and have more events and create, you know, in create more vehicles for that message to get out there, into into the marketplace. And that’s, you know, what we do daily, and it is, it is a, you know, 18 hour a day job. You know, it is it is as much posting as you can do, it is as much cold calling as you can do, it is as much, you know, meeting and development as you can do to get that message out there.


Will Bowden  1:02:20

Yeah, and I would add in to it’s, it’s working with your local community to like, you know, sometimes people are like, Well, I’m not trying to advertise beyond that, whether their decision is on that, that’s fine. But you know, one of the places you can start is your your backyard right away. So like, when we started our farm, we got a fair number of people who were not sure if they were okay with our us building a farmer, we did, I’m confident now that we have their support. But that’s because we invited them to come see the farm, we gave them a tour, we showed them what we’re doing. More importantly, we show them what we’re not doing. Because a lot of people come into this influenced by things like Netflix shows, or just what I learned when I was going through school when I was young, or whatever it was, they were influenced by those things. And they just don’t have current information. And so being able to just work with people, whether you’re going on a broad scale policy level, or if you’re just going into local neighbor level, and just being a good neighbor with your local community showing up to townhall meetings being there, regardless if you’re on the docket or not to be able to talk about things as they come up, you’re not going there with a message to share for sure, you’re going there to be able to provide information when it does come back in in an organic way. And that’s exactly what we’ve done across the farms. We’re there at all the meetings, and when it comes up is like, Hey, I have a question. And it sounds kind of adversarial or controversial. Were able to say, well, you know, I know it smells, you can smell it right now. But here’s the amount of time it’s going to smell. And PS, the smell actually isn’t going to change anything with you guys, when it comes to things like drug tests at work, because that was one of the things that people bring it up. It’s like, I live near the farm. And now I’m gonna test positive for cannabis. And so I understand why you might think that I’m here, here’s what the science says you’re not. And here’s why. And you know, just get to have that conversation with people. And we’ve just stuck to it for a couple of years now. And we’ve been successful with our local community. But back to what Justin was saying, we interact with people right now all over the world, because we try to do things on our website and on social media. And for the ones that don’t get taken down. We’ve actually got people who have contributed or ask questions or, you know, given comments and things like that from all over the United States in the world. It wasn’t just even Michigan population, which was very interesting to us. But we’re, we’re trying to do our part here. And so I think at the end of the day, going all in on not just what you’re doing from a business standpoint, but understanding that education has got to be one of your your pillars to building your business. It’s got to be there. Otherwise, you’re missing a really big part of developing this industry right now.


Justin Calvino  1:04:51

Yeah, I agree. Show up and organize and educate the people in your community, for sure. They really does start there. And it’s a great place to practice too.


Will Bowden  1:05:02

Oh, for sure. That’s a great point. Yeah.


Adam Kulbach  1:05:05

Okay, well, I think you guys answered all the questions even without me asking them. So before, before we go, is there anything else you guys would like to add or points to make?


Justin Calvino  1:05:17

No, I mean, you know, that shameless plug towards, you know, Emerald road.io. Because, you know, we’re building out a blockchain solution for not only banking, but social media, as well as the E commerce dilemma. And you know, it’s an API that can overlay on to any non storefront retail license nationally. So cannabis can, you know, we can be with will and Michigan, selling his cannabis, you know, and then basically building a global community around around this craft industry. So


Will Bowden  1:05:52

it’s amazing that Justin’s going, and he’s building out part of this industry, and probably a waste that people don’t think beyond the plants. And there’s a lot of things going on beyond the plants that are extremely necessary right now. For us at grasshopper farms, real simple. I had the grasshopper farms.com. We’re on Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn, and Twitter, we share a lot of information there. Like you’ll see the latest plants that just went outside, you’ll see all the ways that we’re taking care of the plants, you’ll get to meet the team. We also offer tours, there’s a spot on the on the website where you can come sign up for a tour. And even if you can’t sign up, give us a call or just stop by the farm. We’re in paw paw Michigan, about an hour south of Grand Rapids. And I would invite anybody who has the opportunity to come visit grasshopper farms, or find an organization that’s near you that you can actually go visit, you might be surprised on how many folks will actually give you a tour, you just got to ask. And you got to remember that right now, we’re not quite yet to the vineyard model where you can go and pay to have a tour and get some product and stuff like that. We’re still an industry that was born out of secrecy right now. And we’re coming into legalization. So sometimes you got to be a little more proactive to go in and learn more. Gotta go say hi to somebody got to ask, Hey, can I see it? Can I take a tour? Can I see what you’re doing? And I promise you, you will love the experience. Everybody who’s come to our farm has said across the board, the pictures and videos don’t do it justice. The farm is way more well organized and operates methodically way more than we were expecting. And your team is above reproach, and probably could go tackle anything out there. And I’m very blessed to say that yeah, we have an amazing team, we have an amazing farm and come out to Grasshopper farms and pop on Michigan and check us out, or at least a subscribe to us on social media. So you can see all those fun things that we’re doing right now at the farm because we post daily on all those things.


Adam Kulbach  1:07:41

Okay, could you guys repeat your website information so people could get all the info. So we


Justin Calvino  1:07:47

are Emerald road.io and just go on and sign up and you get we meant to your membership card and the first 1000 signups I think we’re gonna have, we’re pretty sweet NFT drop, you know, for for this for the baseline membership in Emerald road.io.


Will Bowden  1:08:07

And for grasshopper farms, it’s just grasshopper farms.com. So it’s farms with an S grasshopper farms.com. And all the social media links are on grasshopper farms.com to if you want to get on Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn or Twitter as well. Well,


Adam Kulbach  1:08:21

thank you so much, guys really appreciate having you on the podcast, you guys have been a great fan of information. And for once I don’t think I have to do any editing.


Will Bowden  1:08:32

Outside of just Justin and I are very passionate about this industry. What I love about how we are is I feel like we complement each other, right. So like, he is ultra legacy cannabis guy who has just been there, done that with all aspects of the business here. And here I am a guy who is aware of the industry, but came out of the military. And I’m just I’m trying to build a business out of it after being in this industry for about four and a half years now. And I feel like by working together, if we can have more partnerships like this develop, we’re going to be a very successful industry out there. And there’s a lot of room for good people. So just find your good partners out there. Find the people who know the things that you don’t know how to do, don’t be afraid to work with each other. We don’t work in this vacuum of secrecy anymore. You’re allowed to get out there and spread your arms and work with people in ways that you thought you couldn’t before. And now you actually can. And by the way, it’s a whole lot of fun too. So I’d say get out there. And you know, I found my Justin and Justin found as well. And we have other people we talked to as well. So go find your people that that get you excited to be in this industry as well. And that comes from a US perspective to especially a US perspective. Get out there and talk to people about what the screens are, how you got to them, how you’re using them. The fact that it’s legal in your area, let’s Let’s be good catalyst for each other in that charge for education and accepting this new industry.


Adam Kulbach  1:09:49

Okay, well, thank you so much, guys. I really appreciate it.


Justin Calvino  1:09:53

And thank you very much. Well, thank you so much. As always, you’re welcome.


Will Bowden  1:09:59

Enjoy working with you Rebecca suggested


Adam Kulbach  1:10:13

Well, thank you for listening, everybody. For more information about our podcasts, or to add suggestions or if you want to be a guest on our show, check out the description below. Or please call us at 844 High yield, that’s 8448 Chai, why I E, L D. And also check out our website at higher yields consulting.com. There you’ll find all sorts of great information and all of our previous podcast episodes. We hope that you’ll join us for our next podcast coming up very soon. So until then, thank you very much, and have a great day.